For better or for worse

His analysis starts from Jesus' words about wars, earthquakes and calamities: signs of the times associated for centuries with the end of the world. For her, they rather reveal the end of the world. In what sense?
It is the word itself that tells us so.
"Apocalypse" in Greek means "revelation" It is not the calendar of the end of the world, rather the unveiling of the meaning of history. Even more so today in the midst of pandemics, the nuclear threat, climate change. What do those words mean? If we look for something in the Gospel that can help us understand the meaning, we will discover that Jesus' phrases are not meant to send messages of despair and sadness, but hope and light to guide us on life's journey.

How can all this be reconciled with the presence of evil in history?
In the past there were two tendencies: to consider history as an indefinite progress towards the good or as a decadence. Jesus rejects them both. The Gospel tells us that God's message of love can be accepted and therefore bear fruit, or it can be rejected and therefore lead to violence. Jesus lived these two contradictory dimensions together, he was crucified for his message of love. The history of individuals and of the world is all about accepting or not the love of God.
They are two opposing directions that cannot fail. Freedom gives man the possibility of acceptance and rejection.

Why does evil continue to prevail and good to be rejected?
Not sure if evil prevails.
Personally, I have always met people who have done evil with the paradoxical intention of doing good.
That said, we should go beyond a certain infantile view of sin.
We Christians often think it is better to avoid doing evil for fear of God's punishment, of hell, but the Christian faith tells us something else: that if God forbids us to do something, it is because that something hurts us, it destroys us.
I give an example. Climate change and the nuclear threat are the result of the inner movement of man who wishes to dominate at all costs, possess and consume beyond his own needs. This is sin. It's an evil that damages the world, it's not trivial. At the root is the refusal to be loved. Even priests always remember the effort of loving, but they remember little of the importance and effort of acknowledging that we are loved and esteemed. How tiring it is to accept being loved! May someone - not just God - cast a gaze of esteem and love upon us. It is destabilizing to accept being loved, primarily out of fear. How many times do we say: "It is not possible that he loves me, he loves me who am not lovable". This refusal really causes violence, anger, distrust and the will to dominate.

How do you read history and the signs of the times with the right gaze?
I believe that we must read God's Word seriously, accepting that the Gospel questions and displaces us. Let's accept the difficulties, let's not settle for the obvious! God gave us a brain not to settle for obvious, self-evident things; the gospel then makes us attentive to the things we usually do not see. This is especially true with respect to love which can only be glimpsed in people. It's not "instagrammable", it's something that requires attention on our part. Precisely for this reason the signs of the times are not spectacular except on a personal level when we accept to open our eyes to realities that seem humble. I believe these signs resemble the Lord and always deal with humble things.

Meeting with others is a central challenge. She has lived in Cairo for many years. What is the best style for dialogue?
You have to accept that you are different. It's really difficult because we always have the belief that others think exactly like us. But until I accept otherness, dialogue does not exist. Much better not to start from similarities, but to understand why we are different. In the name of good feelings, we risk bringing the other to our positions, but it is a mistake. I am truly convinced that the challenge of peace is not to demonstrate that we are all the same, but to accept the fact that we are all different. It is not a drama, because together we can find ways of dialogue, a common language. Sometimes it is believed that a certain word has the same meaning for everyone, but it is not. Secondly, to have a true dialogue, authentic personal friendship is needed, based on mutual trust.
So is dialogue with Islam possible? No, because Islam is not a person.
On the contrary, dialogue with Muslims is possible. Between people you can talk in a spirit of friendship. Dialogue bares and shows one's own weakness that only a friend can cherish and welcome.

Specifically how do you get there?
The real dialogue is that of two human beings who talk about God and who accept over time to share their answers, but also their questions, their weaknesses. Because if I say: in my life I believe in Jesus Christ and I agree to tell you why, and I explain the reasons for my faith, I don't impose it on you.
I do this even if I expose myself, telling you my reasons for believing; I am in danger that you may attack me by ridiculing my faith.
This is the risk of true dialogue, which is created when I place trust in you in friendship, believing that you will not use my weakness to demonstrate that my faith is false and thus destroy it.

Dialogue between Christians is also complex today. What to say to the Russian Orthodox patriarch who blessed the war in Ukraine?
In history there have been wars of religion and wars that have used religion. The war in Ukraine falls into the second category. Unfortunately, in the Russian world there is an old tradition of instrumentalization of the church by political power.
The episode to which he refers testifies to an acceptance of this logic. We can rebuke and sanction those who have been the protagonists, but we must always be careful not to fall into the same risk, that of confusing our political positions – even good ones, even intelligent ones – with faith. If we do this, we close the doors to love and goodness. Christians must be for the Kingdom of God. We must not give up and continue to dialogue despite everything. The alternative is another war. Having said this, however, one important thing remains, namely the dialogue between believers which fortunately is not completely prohibited by these political events.

Before becoming a friar, he was a young man engaged in politics. What fascinated you about that world? What must politics change today to promote good between people and the common good?
For me, politics has always been a concrete way to help people and I believe it can be one of the broadest expressions of love. If you don't deal with politics, politics will eventually deal with you. Politics is important, it can make good laws, but that's not enough. Everything starts from the heart of man. The speeches in which it is said that politics is useless or can do everything are not valid. I didn't quit politics because it's evil, but because I was better off talking about God.
For me it is an occasion of holiness. In high school, I realized that people listened to me and trusted me. I understood that I could use this gift to be a link between Jesus and people.

Returning to the struggle between good and evil, Jesus' invitation to be vigilant recurs several times in the Gospel. What does it mean concretely?
The topic of surveillance is fundamental today, especially in a time of smartphones and social networks. Our attention is a battlefield because the whole world vies for it.
Watching is understanding what to do with our attention. What do I watch? What do I let into my heart? This is the beginning of spiritual life.
Don't direct my attention to the screamer, but to what other people experience. For me, to contemplate God is to see his grace at work in people's lives.
For me this means loving one's neighbor. I don't have the task of bringing God into people, because He is already there. I can help others by putting myself at the service of the dialogue between God and the world. It's a different thing.
The challenge is to make room for others, fully respecting them. A daily exercise of vigilance is to ask ourselves every evening where we have seen salvation in our life and in that of the people we meet.

By the editorial staff
FOCUS
NP May 2023