The construction site of peace and hope

A cardinal and a geopolitical analyst meet. Matteo Zuppi and Dario Fabbri face to face within the walls of the Arsenale della Pace as a preview of the Festival of Mission, promoted by the Italian Bishops' Conference.
A wide-ranging dialogue on the international situation marked by conflict and violence, and on that possible, perhaps hidden, hope that remains a compass for believers and those who refuse to give up.

Dario Fabbri, this year the UN turns eighty. An anniversary that coincides with the organization's most serious crisis. Is it the end of an era?
I'll answer by starting with Pope Francis, with his image of a "piecemeal World War III." He was right. We are in an era of upheaval that we must learn to see through the eyes of others. Often, we Westerners think the rest of the world thinks like us.
For example, we believe that the liberal system is a value, but many countries negatively associate it with the West, which has exploited them. The United Nations is not the world government, but an institution with rules decided by the victors of the Second World War. But the world has changed. China and India alone have a combined population of 3 billion. Why should they be nostalgic for a world order imposed on them? Pope Francis, without ever justifying it, has always encouraged us to rethink our perspective, to put ourselves in others' shoes, in order to engage in dialogue.

What does the other side of the world ask for? Chinese, Indians, Africans...?
Fabbri - We use a phrase "the Global South" that reflects all our shortsightedness: it was invented by a thinker in an American Catholic magazine in the 1960s, and recently revived. It's our way of concealing, first and foremost, from ourselves, that the Global South represents the vast majority of humanity. We must stop looking at reality with our cultural prejudices; the "others" want their place in history, they want to count. The rest of the world wants to be taken seriously, they want to be understood for what they are, they don't want to be seen through our lens.
The territory of Gaza is as large as the province of Arezzo, but it is home to 2.5 million people. We call the main city Gaza City, but in Arabic it has another name. Even words can distance us and prevent us from truly knowing others, denying the value of their identity. Iran has 70% of its population under 29. The Iranian people want to overthrow the regime, not become like the West: in Iran, women in the streets show off Zoroastrian jewelry because they are telling the regime that they want to live their own traditions, which are syncretic, not just Muslim.
We need to study to understand the world. It's racist to think that everyone thinks like us, wants what we want.
For example, we think by placing the individual at the center, while in other cultures the community dimension prevails, and they see individual freedom as selfishness and the negation of group values. We call ourselves citizens of the world, but in reality we are only tourists because we don't truly meet people.

Cardinal Zuppi, in such a complex world, what value do dialogue and diplomacy have?
In recent weeks, Pope Leo spoke of the globalization of indifference and impotence. It's a perceptive thought, because we're convincing ourselves that we can't do anything. This isn't the case, and there's no point in raising our voices. The real problem is understanding with intelligence and passion what these times demand of us. In such great confusion as the one we're experiencing, finding order is difficult, but it's important not to become a globalized impotence: Europe, too, suffers from it. But can Europe avoid rejecting war?
We mustn't find excuses, we must wait any longer. Europe is a heritage that must not be squandered.
While the powerful destroy, the humble must unite, build, and seek paths of dialogue. Pope Francis invited us to a creative peace, addressing problems and going beyond old recipes, exploring every available space.
We also need to not throw away the instruments of diplomacy and international law, which are currently suffering, but which must be revived and renewed.
Let us remember that they are the legacy of a generation that lived through a terrible war and did not want an even worse one for humanity.

A strong cry against war is coming from young people. Are they being heard?
Zuppi - Young people are wondering what kind of world we are leaving them, given that we adults have exhausted all our hope. Pope Francis told them not to let hope be stolen. Our generation has not committed itself to peace because we had it at our disposal and have not preserved and increased it. It is natural for young people to live in Europe and travel, but we have taken away from them the European dream, the awareness of a continent that has experienced more wars than any other and has found an architecture of peace that, however, must be nurtured.
Where there are no dreams, there is impotence. We have burned many dreams and expectations, and for this reason we fail to realize what we are experiencing and what we risk losing. We must listen to young people's rejection of violence and war, and leave them the world at least as we found it (even if we should leave it better). Finally, we must think carefully about this: if we must invest in defense, then we must force ourselves to make equal investments in dialogue and peace. Otherwise, we surrender to the law of the strongest and become accustomed to thinking that war will be the new future.
We need new "architects" like the politicians who built Europe, with new dreams to escape this logic.

The cardinal mentioned Pope Leo. What should we expect from him?
Fabbri - At first, it seemed strange to everyone to see an American pope: given the US's hegemony as a world power, it never seemed appropriate to place an American at the head of the Church. In truth, many cardinals never thought of him as an American candidate: Leo is very clear that he is the pope of the entire Church. But there is a non-trivial aspect. Consider the situation in Latin America, where the Catholic Church is going through a very difficult time. In Latin America, Protestant sects are gaining the upper hand over the Catholic majority, even with US aid. With the condemnation of Liberation Theology, no alternative was offered, and this has eroded the Catholic base. Now we have an American telling Latin Americans, supported by American Protestant money, that it is possible to remain Catholic. He is an American who doesn't speak English because he doesn't want to revive Caesaropapism in modern forms.
Zuppi - Leone is first and foremost a missionary pope. This is crucial because without a mission, the Church becomes an exclusive members-only club, a spiritual pastry shop. But this means the end of the Church, which must continue to be a field hospital for humanity.
If it doesn't experience people's suffering, the Church will no longer be seen as a teacher.
In recent years, Gaza and the Holy Land have become emblems of this suffering.

What testimony comes from there?
Zuppi - We went to Jerusalem simply to be with the people affected by this war. We had no particular expectations; we brought some help so we could even think about the future. We had the opportunity to speak with some parents of hostages. One mother told us that there is no pain classification and she never wanted her pain to cause more pain. With this moral strength, we can all together ask those responsible for the war: "Stop!"
We have the opportunity to dismantle the reasons for war. In this, missionaries are often unheard teachers: they enter into the events of people's lives, enter into their stories and cultures, and languages, to be close to them. They demonstrate that it's possible to live together, overcome misunderstandings, and listen to each other.

Edited by the editorial staff
Focus
NP October 2025